Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

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phossler
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Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by phossler »

Not very experienced user here ;)

Trying to stream some movies to my Samsung TVs and keep getting "Network Errors" for some files

I'm using UMS 10.8.0, Win 10 Pro, up to date, Samsung-CD.conf

Using Media Info on the entire library, it seems like the error only occurs on Matroska files (HEVC, AAC LC) with a Media Info video line that looks like:

3 028 kb/s. 1920*1080 (16:9), at 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS, HEVC (Main 10@L4@Main)

The other MKV HEVC AAC files with descriptions like Main@L4@Main play with out problems; it's only the Main 10@L4@Main ones that don't play

Is there something I could change, or do I need to use Handbrake to re-encode them?

Thanks

Paul
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mik_s
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by mik_s »

Can't say for certain without logs (see the red section above) but if you have an older TV then HEVC will not be supported so UMS is trying to transcode them on the fly to a format that will play. It can take a lot of CPU usage and network bandwidth to transcode some videos (especially HEVC) and if the TV does not get the data in time it can report errors.

Getting the right transcoding settings can take a bit of trial and error though, and transcoding does have its downsides for some devices like being unable to seek.

The best option is to try and avoid transcoding whenever possible, which means using the correct .conf for your TV or editing an existing one to improve compatibility.
The Samsung-CD.conf is quite old now and fairly generic to give some usability for most common formats that were being used at the time. If your TV is newer they may be an existing one that can be tweaked to work for you.
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phossler
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by phossler »

Thanks

I did look through the log earlier, but probably didn't have the level correct - hopefully I did it right this time :D
Didn't tell me anything, and the full debug trace is over my head a lot

This is a 2016 Samsung Model 5 Series, 32" so it is a little old. I have some other Samsungs year or 2 older still.

I could not find in the manuals or online what formats, CODECs, etc. they support

They seem to play most HEVC encoded files OK, it's only the ones that Media Info shows as "Main 10@L4@Main" that have the problem. I got mired down with the technical talk that Google dredged up, but I sort of think the 10 means 10 bit colors(?) so that would make me think the TV is too old for what I am assuming is a new format.
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mik_s
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by mik_s »

yes the 10 refers to video bitdepth, and since there is no mention of bitdepth in the old conf, UMS thinks that format is not supported so is trying to transcode.

However your network speed quite low (~17 Mb/s) and transcoding takes a lot of bandwidth and CPU power, even more for HEVC, and I'm not sure your system is up to the task which is why it is failing.

First thing to try is to see if your TV can actually play it without transcoding. Go to the #--TRANSCODE--# folder and chose "No Transcoding" and UMS will will stream the file unchanged, and if that works then the conf can be tweaked to say those are supported. might even have to create a better conf for that series.
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phossler
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by phossler »

First thing to try is to see if your TV can actually play it without transcoding. Go to the #--TRANSCODE--# folder and chose "No Transcoding" and UMS will stream the file unchanged, and if that works then the conf can be tweaked to say those are supported. might even have to create a better conf for that series.
That was an interesting test

I don't understand your suggestion to go to the #--TRANSCODE--# folder

I went to the Transcode tab, and put "mkv" in the 'Don't transcode box" and it seems to have worked

Are the options in 10.8.0 different?
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mik_s
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by mik_s »

I meant on your TV use the #--TRANSCODE--# folder (If you don't see it, check to see if "Show the #--Transcode--# folder" is selected in navigation tab), but I guess skipping transcoding had the same effect. It's a quick fix but not recommended as its is better if UMS knows exactly the supported formats for your TV, so when it comes to a video that is not, It can still be played by transcoding. for example a lot of manufactures are dropping support for DTS audio to save money on licensing, and the only way to play them on some devices is though transcoding.

I'll see if I can alter an existing conf to better suit your TV later on if you can do some testing, but the proper fix to add 10 bit support is to add

Code: Select all

SupportedVideoBitDepths = 8,10
into the conf.
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phossler
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by phossler »

OK

I checked the "Show TRANSCODE Folder" box in UMS and the TRANSCODE folder showed on the TV (I didn't know THAT was I was supposed to find it) :oops: and I removed the 'mkv' from the "Skip Transcoding" box

Went to the movie and in ##--TRANSCODE--## folder and there were

FFmpeg
MEncoder
ItsMuxR
No Transcoding
AVIAynth FF
AVISynth ME
VLC

None really worked

But since I knew the TV could play the 10 bit MKV files, I added your proper fix

SupportedVideoBitDepths = 8,10

to the conf (Samsung-CD.conf) file and now everything works whole bunches more better

Thanks -- so much better than re-encoding everything -- really appreciate your time and effort and suggestions and patience
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mik_s
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by mik_s »

I thought that show transcode folder was on by default so assumed that you would see it on your TV :oops:
The #--TRANSCODE--# folder can be a bit of a mess as it shows every combination of engine, audio and subs available which can be overwhelming for some videos, and some devices make it harder by the way they display them or even ignoring the order instead showing them alphabetically.

You will probably not need to use any of the engines apart from FFmpeg, so disabling them them in the transcoding setting tab will tidy things up a lot.
If you are just testing if a video is supported by your TV, the only option you will need is "No transcoding"

I have altered the Samsung-J6200.conf as it seems very similar to the specs to your TV, but it will not be perfect so let me know if you have any problems and post new logs too.
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phossler
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by phossler »

I told UMS to not show the TRANSCODE folder on the TV because other people tune in and it was confusing. Forgot all about doing that

The Samsung-5 series.conf that you created works great. Everything seems to play nicely on the Series 5, but I have some other Samsungs to check out

Question - Is there any way to 'ask' the TV (or render) what it supports? The manuals seem basically useless

BTW --
Will help if I can but no expert.
-- Well, I think you're an expert

Thanks again
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mik_s
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Re: Main 10@L4@Main causes MKV files to not play (I think)

Post by mik_s »

Most devices do actually report what formats are supported. If you look in the logs for GetProtocolInfo it will list everything.
But It is not as simple as that, what they report back can be too broad and some combination of audio and video codecs may not work together.

Ideally the best way of writing the supported section of the conf is to use this, but a quick google of the specs of your TV showed that they were very similar to another one so just altered that to work.

I have suggested before for a way to use this to automatically create a basic conf for unknown devices with a GUI and I hope that it happens, but at the moment development is focused in other areas
phossler wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:03 pm BTW --

Will help if I can but no expert.

-- Well, I think you're an expert
Thanks but when it comes to networking or details with transcoding and codecs I know very little. :oops: :P
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